Thanks!
Help! California VIN Specialist needed.
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Scott-Drolet
- Posts: 400
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:00 am
Help! California VIN Specialist needed.
I didn't accomplish what I had hoped at the DMV this morning with the Corvair Burro (surprise, surprise) which is currently showing as a 1999 SPCN in their system. So, until I can get it changed back to a 1963 vehicle, it needs to be smogged AND is not technically entitled to the "no-fenders" exemption. I did have an extremely helpful person at the window and the Manager got involved as well. They agreed that I didn't need to go the whole SB-100 route to get the car exempt. They would change the SPCN year based on a visual inspection by a California Highway Patrol-appointed VIN Specialist. I know there were one or two guys in the Manx Club at some point that had that classification, but I don't know if they are still doing that or not. Does anyone know of a buggy friendly VIN Specialist? Looking at this Burro is a no-brainer to a buggy person, and I really don't want to take a chance on getting someone who has no idea what they're looking at.
Thanks!
Thanks!
Scott Drolet
MC Vice President
MC 47, DSB, RBC, Long Haul League, '64 Monocoque, '67 Manx, '73 Manxter, '64 Stainless Burro, '64 Corvair Burro, '65 Corvair Burro
http://www.ManxClub.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.SeaToSeaSafari.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.BurroBuggies.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
MC Vice President
MC 47, DSB, RBC, Long Haul League, '64 Monocoque, '67 Manx, '73 Manxter, '64 Stainless Burro, '64 Corvair Burro, '65 Corvair Burro
http://www.ManxClub.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.SeaToSeaSafari.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.BurroBuggies.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Help! California VIN Specialist needed.
Hey Scott;
It will be interesting to see if you can get them to change to a 63 vehicle. I have FULSGLD which is a 69 ManxVair and it is registered as a 1998 SPCN (I bought it in 1998 and my son and the previous owner went to the DMV and this is what I got) and I have never been able to get them to change to a reasonable year. It has a DMV VIN on it which appears to have been pop-riveted on when it was built (way before I ever bought it). The DMV has no info on this number prior to 1998. I didn't have to smog it when I purchased FULSGLD, but in 2002 I received my registration renewal and it said I needed to get it smogged. I fought to keep it out of the smog system by going to the DMV, a Smog station and a Smog Referee, all to no avail. So I put it on a non-op until I could figure it out. In 2003 I received my reg-renewal and it said I didn't need a smog, just money and insurance, so I registered it. Drove it for a year. In 2004 I got my reg-renewal and it said I needed to smog it (plus money and insurance). I put it on a non-op again. 2005 didn't ask for a smog, so I registered it again. At that time I moved to WA. In WA, they don't know what a SPCN is so they wanted me to take it to the State Patrol and have it inspected. Well, it wouldn't have passed an inspection so it's now sitting in my garage on a CA non-op. If you do get yours changed, please let me know how it's done. In the meantime, I bought a buggy for parts up here and it came with a 63 Corvair title. That title is now in my name, and the number will be pounded into the frame of FULSGLD unless you find a way to get the DMV to capitulate. Good luck.
It will be interesting to see if you can get them to change to a 63 vehicle. I have FULSGLD which is a 69 ManxVair and it is registered as a 1998 SPCN (I bought it in 1998 and my son and the previous owner went to the DMV and this is what I got) and I have never been able to get them to change to a reasonable year. It has a DMV VIN on it which appears to have been pop-riveted on when it was built (way before I ever bought it). The DMV has no info on this number prior to 1998. I didn't have to smog it when I purchased FULSGLD, but in 2002 I received my registration renewal and it said I needed to get it smogged. I fought to keep it out of the smog system by going to the DMV, a Smog station and a Smog Referee, all to no avail. So I put it on a non-op until I could figure it out. In 2003 I received my reg-renewal and it said I didn't need a smog, just money and insurance, so I registered it. Drove it for a year. In 2004 I got my reg-renewal and it said I needed to smog it (plus money and insurance). I put it on a non-op again. 2005 didn't ask for a smog, so I registered it again. At that time I moved to WA. In WA, they don't know what a SPCN is so they wanted me to take it to the State Patrol and have it inspected. Well, it wouldn't have passed an inspection so it's now sitting in my garage on a CA non-op. If you do get yours changed, please let me know how it's done. In the meantime, I bought a buggy for parts up here and it came with a 63 Corvair title. That title is now in my name, and the number will be pounded into the frame of FULSGLD unless you find a way to get the DMV to capitulate. Good luck.
Gary Berry
Prosser, WA
1971 Turista
1969 ManxVair
Member #1112
Prosser, WA
1971 Turista
1969 ManxVair
Member #1112
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Scott-Drolet
- Posts: 400
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:00 am
Help! California VIN Specialist needed.
Hi Gary,
Turns out that there are two different types of VIN "examiners", for lack of a better word. There are VIN Verifiers, who just more or less write all of the information about your car onto a DMV form and attest that the VIN number is on the car. Then there is the VIN Specialist, who is actually a Highway Patrol Officer that has the power to completely change the year of the car if they find there is an error. I spoke to a CHP Specialist in the Moorpark, California station this morning and he really tried to be helpful, but he simply couldn't. At issue is the fact the car is an SPCN. He told me that it was a conglomorate of parts, not manufactured by a recognized car manufacturer (Ford, Chevy, etc.) and once the VIN is assigned a year that's where it stays. I responded that the car WAS a 1963 SPCN on the title of the owner before the guy I bought it from, and he wanted to see the paperwork. Neither I, nor the owner before me have the old paperwork, because the DMV kept it when the guy I bought it from transferred it into his name. He told me to go the Certificate of Sequence route, which is the new name for the SB-100 legislation passed a few years ago. Once the BAR determines the year of the engine installed in the car (In my case, I already have a BAR Referee-installed tag saying my engine is a 1965), they allow the registered owner to choose if he wants the car's model year based on the vehicle body year, or by the motor year. The previous owner took the first step in identifying the year of the Burro, but never went back for the Certificate of Sequence.
After I spoke to the CHP VIN Specialist, I went back to the DMV and spoke to the Manager and walked her through everything the Officer had told me. She was of the opinion that once a car was registered as a SPCN of any year, it could not be a candidate for the Certificate of Sequence. I showed her the FAQ paperwork the CHP gave me, and it clearly states a owner can try as many times as they like to submit their vehicle for a Certificate of Sequence.
Here's where I am now. The DMV Manager says that there is no longer a high demand for the 500 exempt titles the DMV issues every year. She says it used to be that people would line up at 4:00AM to try and get one of them because it seemed like everyone was building Cobras, Buggies, Hot Rods, etc. But last year, they didn't even go through the 500 titles in the course of the entire year. That sure shows the effect the economy has had on the specialty car market! Because I just transferred the car into my name today, she said I need to wait until I get the title in the mail. Once I have that, I'll bring it back to her and she'll pull one of the Certificate of Sequences in my name. About ten days later I'll get the official paperwork from Sacramento, and then schedule an inspection at the BAR inspection station at Oxnard College. I then bring that paperwork back to her again, and a new title will be issued.
It all sounds very logical and simple, which I know it won't be. But, I'll keep my fingers crossed and see if they can set aside the government-think and actually let a little logic guide their behavior.
What is truly tragic about this, is that the State of California doesn't understand they're losing a valuable revenue stream. I guess they are of the belief that if a car can't get the smog exemption, it is removed off the street or somehow brought up to meet smog standards. Ill bet their registration statistics back that up, too. Each year, less smog exempt titles are being issued. What they don't see is that the neighboring states are more than willing to grab this cash. Next time you're on a buggy run, check how many cars have either Arizona or Nevada plates. All a Californian has to do is get a PO Box in Arizona, a state ID card, and the smog nightmare is over. So, the cars aren't going away, their owners are simply frustrated to the point of going around the system. And California continues to teeter on the brink of bankruptcy . . .
Turns out that there are two different types of VIN "examiners", for lack of a better word. There are VIN Verifiers, who just more or less write all of the information about your car onto a DMV form and attest that the VIN number is on the car. Then there is the VIN Specialist, who is actually a Highway Patrol Officer that has the power to completely change the year of the car if they find there is an error. I spoke to a CHP Specialist in the Moorpark, California station this morning and he really tried to be helpful, but he simply couldn't. At issue is the fact the car is an SPCN. He told me that it was a conglomorate of parts, not manufactured by a recognized car manufacturer (Ford, Chevy, etc.) and once the VIN is assigned a year that's where it stays. I responded that the car WAS a 1963 SPCN on the title of the owner before the guy I bought it from, and he wanted to see the paperwork. Neither I, nor the owner before me have the old paperwork, because the DMV kept it when the guy I bought it from transferred it into his name. He told me to go the Certificate of Sequence route, which is the new name for the SB-100 legislation passed a few years ago. Once the BAR determines the year of the engine installed in the car (In my case, I already have a BAR Referee-installed tag saying my engine is a 1965), they allow the registered owner to choose if he wants the car's model year based on the vehicle body year, or by the motor year. The previous owner took the first step in identifying the year of the Burro, but never went back for the Certificate of Sequence.
After I spoke to the CHP VIN Specialist, I went back to the DMV and spoke to the Manager and walked her through everything the Officer had told me. She was of the opinion that once a car was registered as a SPCN of any year, it could not be a candidate for the Certificate of Sequence. I showed her the FAQ paperwork the CHP gave me, and it clearly states a owner can try as many times as they like to submit their vehicle for a Certificate of Sequence.
Here's where I am now. The DMV Manager says that there is no longer a high demand for the 500 exempt titles the DMV issues every year. She says it used to be that people would line up at 4:00AM to try and get one of them because it seemed like everyone was building Cobras, Buggies, Hot Rods, etc. But last year, they didn't even go through the 500 titles in the course of the entire year. That sure shows the effect the economy has had on the specialty car market! Because I just transferred the car into my name today, she said I need to wait until I get the title in the mail. Once I have that, I'll bring it back to her and she'll pull one of the Certificate of Sequences in my name. About ten days later I'll get the official paperwork from Sacramento, and then schedule an inspection at the BAR inspection station at Oxnard College. I then bring that paperwork back to her again, and a new title will be issued.
It all sounds very logical and simple, which I know it won't be. But, I'll keep my fingers crossed and see if they can set aside the government-think and actually let a little logic guide their behavior.
What is truly tragic about this, is that the State of California doesn't understand they're losing a valuable revenue stream. I guess they are of the belief that if a car can't get the smog exemption, it is removed off the street or somehow brought up to meet smog standards. Ill bet their registration statistics back that up, too. Each year, less smog exempt titles are being issued. What they don't see is that the neighboring states are more than willing to grab this cash. Next time you're on a buggy run, check how many cars have either Arizona or Nevada plates. All a Californian has to do is get a PO Box in Arizona, a state ID card, and the smog nightmare is over. So, the cars aren't going away, their owners are simply frustrated to the point of going around the system. And California continues to teeter on the brink of bankruptcy . . .
Scott Drolet
MC Vice President
MC 47, DSB, RBC, Long Haul League, '64 Monocoque, '67 Manx, '73 Manxter, '64 Stainless Burro, '64 Corvair Burro, '65 Corvair Burro
http://www.ManxClub.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.SeaToSeaSafari.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.BurroBuggies.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
MC Vice President
MC 47, DSB, RBC, Long Haul League, '64 Monocoque, '67 Manx, '73 Manxter, '64 Stainless Burro, '64 Corvair Burro, '65 Corvair Burro
http://www.ManxClub.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.SeaToSeaSafari.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.BurroBuggies.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Help! California VIN Specialist needed.
Wow, what a hassle. I hope that everything goes well for you. I was told at Modesto JC (the referee station) that I should just go ahead and smog it as they would just go by the year of the engine for the smog requirements which would be very lenient. I was just trying to stay OUT of the smog system so I wouldn't have to do the smog thing each year. I do have a friend that has his buggy that was a SPCN but when he showed the DMV clerk that it was first sold in 1961 (it was on the title) she changed the year right there so that it's now registered as a 61. No smog, no nothing. Keep us posted. Thanks.
Gary Berry
Prosser, WA
1971 Turista
1969 ManxVair
Member #1112
Prosser, WA
1971 Turista
1969 ManxVair
Member #1112
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Scott-Drolet
- Posts: 400
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:00 am
Help! California VIN Specialist needed.
Yes, that's true about the more lenient smog, the Burro just needs to pass the emissions set for a 1965 Corvair engine, and it easily passes. What I'm really worried about is that the car doesn't have fenders. Here's what Vehicle Code 27600 says about needing fenders.
"27600. No person shall operate any motor vehicle having three or more wheels, any trailer, or semitrailer unless equipped with fenders, covers, or devices, including flaps or splash aprons, or unless the body of the vehicle or attachments thereto afford adequate protection to effectively minimize the spray or splash of water or mud to the rear of the vehicle and all such equipment or such body or attachments thereto shall be at least as wide as the tire tread. This section does not apply to those vehicles exempt from registration, trailers and semitrailers having an unladen weight of under 1,500 pounds, or any vehicles manufactured and first registered prior to January 1, 1971, having an unladen weight of under 1,500 pounds."
The local Tow'd and Burro drivers actually carry a copy of this VC along with them in their cars in case they get pulled over. Officers here will pull you over for not having fenders. Since the exempiton only aplies to vehicles manufactured prior to 1971, If the 1999 year model sticks, I could have to add fenders if one of the local cops decides to make my life miserable.
I'm not going to give up on this, they'll be so sick of seeing me coming through their doors, they'll change the year just to get rid of me.
"27600. No person shall operate any motor vehicle having three or more wheels, any trailer, or semitrailer unless equipped with fenders, covers, or devices, including flaps or splash aprons, or unless the body of the vehicle or attachments thereto afford adequate protection to effectively minimize the spray or splash of water or mud to the rear of the vehicle and all such equipment or such body or attachments thereto shall be at least as wide as the tire tread. This section does not apply to those vehicles exempt from registration, trailers and semitrailers having an unladen weight of under 1,500 pounds, or any vehicles manufactured and first registered prior to January 1, 1971, having an unladen weight of under 1,500 pounds."
The local Tow'd and Burro drivers actually carry a copy of this VC along with them in their cars in case they get pulled over. Officers here will pull you over for not having fenders. Since the exempiton only aplies to vehicles manufactured prior to 1971, If the 1999 year model sticks, I could have to add fenders if one of the local cops decides to make my life miserable.
I'm not going to give up on this, they'll be so sick of seeing me coming through their doors, they'll change the year just to get rid of me.
Scott Drolet
MC Vice President
MC 47, DSB, RBC, Long Haul League, '64 Monocoque, '67 Manx, '73 Manxter, '64 Stainless Burro, '64 Corvair Burro, '65 Corvair Burro
http://www.ManxClub.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.SeaToSeaSafari.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.BurroBuggies.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
MC Vice President
MC 47, DSB, RBC, Long Haul League, '64 Monocoque, '67 Manx, '73 Manxter, '64 Stainless Burro, '64 Corvair Burro, '65 Corvair Burro
http://www.ManxClub.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.SeaToSeaSafari.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.BurroBuggies.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Scott-Drolet
- Posts: 400
- Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:00 am
Help! California VIN Specialist needed.
Thanks for the encouragement Bill. I'll get this through somehow . . . 
Scott Drolet
MC Vice President
MC 47, DSB, RBC, Long Haul League, '64 Monocoque, '67 Manx, '73 Manxter, '64 Stainless Burro, '64 Corvair Burro, '65 Corvair Burro
http://www.ManxClub.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.SeaToSeaSafari.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.BurroBuggies.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
MC Vice President
MC 47, DSB, RBC, Long Haul League, '64 Monocoque, '67 Manx, '73 Manxter, '64 Stainless Burro, '64 Corvair Burro, '65 Corvair Burro
http://www.ManxClub.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.SeaToSeaSafari.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.BurroBuggies.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Help! California VIN Specialist needed.
I went through the Certificate of Sequence process with the Manxter. The whole process was not that bad. I had to take reciepts and the car to the CHP for verification and a VIN number. I had to see a BAR referee for the smog exemption and I had to have a brake and light inspection. Your actual registration will have the year that you got your Sequence number as mine is registered as a 2004, it is just smog exempt. This will probably not help you out Scott with the fender law but its not a bad way to get a buggy registered.
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Schlep-Buggy
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:00 am
Help! California VIN Specialist needed.
Did you get anywhere on the smog exemption? I cannot find a vehicle in the Ca. DMV system that was registered as SPCN in 2002. How many digits are on the SPCN tag? Also I had no luck looking up the VIN on the tunnel as they said it needs to be 17 digits and it only has 7. I think it was originally a 66 beelte. HELP... I want to figure out where to go from here. Nothing comes up so far at the DMV.