Hard Riding Front End
Hard Riding Front End
Does Anyone Know How The New Myers Manx Front Ends Are Set Up For A Soft Ride On The Street? If I Could Come Up With A Bolt In, I Would Prefer To Do That Instead Of Removing Springs From The Tube. Do Not Have Access To Welding Or Vw Shops In My Area. On My Own And It Is My First Buggy. Thanks For Your Help.
The best way, is to install a front beam with adjusters in it, then back off the tension on the torsions until the front ride height just starts to drop. This method will give you the softest suspension. Right now your front trailing arms are probably tight against the upper suspension stop when the buggy is sitting static and that's not good. Make sure you front shocks are some old worn out units. You certanly don't need anything heavy duty. Run your front tire pressure at between 10 and 12 psi.
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5150bossman
- Posts: 606
- Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:00 am
- Location: So Cal
I have had good luck replacing some of the solid torsion leaves with sets of split ones from a junkyard front end. You just have to notch some of the split leaves to make the 'dimples' where the set screws right. For street, I would do the two outermost leaves in each stack. That should soften it right up.
Please Remember This Is My First One. If The Car Is Sitting On The Snubbers, It Will Not Go Any Lower.....correct?? If So, Then I Am Not Seeing How Taking Out Torsion Plates Or Relaxing An Adjustable Beam Will Help. Don't Give Up On Me. This Is The Final Step In Rebuilding The Buggy To Make It Road Worthy. Again, Thanks For Your Help, Jim
"If The Car Is Sitting On The Snubbers, It Will Not Go Any Lower.....correct??" Most likely, it will not go any HIGHER. Are your trailing arms in the same position as the ones in this picture, with the top arm touching the snubber? 
If so, your front end has too much spring rate for the amount of weight on it. If the arms are pointing DOWN, the front end is being pushed UP. If the arms are pointing UP, the front end is nosing DOWN. The VW's front suspension moves in an arc - when a tire hits an object, the tire moves up and back. Ideally, you want the upper trailing arm to be close to, but not quite touching the snubber, car unloaded. Or cut the darn thing off, like fubar said. If you do that, be sure to fabricate some other stops, or be prepared to use your shocks as suspension stops. This can bend a shock shaft or worse if the shocks aren't equipped for that type of abuse. Limiting straps can be used to prevent over-extending, but you should also have a way of preventing the suspension from bottoming out. This is even more important on a ball joint front end. Exceeding the maximum angular travel of a ball joint is the same as exceeding the maximum angular travel of a CV joint - and is just as disasterous. A King Pin front end is far more forgiving, but you want to save those shocks! Personally, I would follow Jerry's advice and go with the adjustable front end. I have had my front end apart more times than I can remember, trying to fine tune it to perfection. An adjustable beam would make it MUCH easier!
If so, your front end has too much spring rate for the amount of weight on it. If the arms are pointing DOWN, the front end is being pushed UP. If the arms are pointing UP, the front end is nosing DOWN. The VW's front suspension moves in an arc - when a tire hits an object, the tire moves up and back. Ideally, you want the upper trailing arm to be close to, but not quite touching the snubber, car unloaded. Or cut the darn thing off, like fubar said. If you do that, be sure to fabricate some other stops, or be prepared to use your shocks as suspension stops. This can bend a shock shaft or worse if the shocks aren't equipped for that type of abuse. Limiting straps can be used to prevent over-extending, but you should also have a way of preventing the suspension from bottoming out. This is even more important on a ball joint front end. Exceeding the maximum angular travel of a ball joint is the same as exceeding the maximum angular travel of a CV joint - and is just as disasterous. A King Pin front end is far more forgiving, but you want to save those shocks! Personally, I would follow Jerry's advice and go with the adjustable front end. I have had my front end apart more times than I can remember, trying to fine tune it to perfection. An adjustable beam would make it MUCH easier!The only real way to soften the ride is to remove some of the leaves. The front suspension was setup for a full bodied car and you have removed lots of that weight, that is why the trailing arms are against the stops. If you look at a stock type 1 you will see the front trailing arms fairly well parallel with the ground, you need to duplicate that on your buggy. I have a round torsion bar in the place of the stack on the upper tube of my street clone. It tooks some blocks in the shape of the stack at the trailing arm ends and one with a straight hole through it in the middle position. Now I have a built in anti-sway bar and the front rides nicely. I also added 100# of weight inside the front nerf bar to offset the weight of the Corvair engine. I realize I am not helping you that much since you aren't near someone to help you, just telling you what I did. Steve Goodman Denver, Co Manx member #299 manx clone w/turbo corvair
"If I go with the adjustable beam should I still remove some of the torsion bars?" From what I have been told, yes and no. 
Sorry I can't be of more help, but I am aware of setups where all the original leaves are used, and others where further softening was done by switching some solid leaves with sets of splits. I went with the leaf swapping method alone because: 1. It's less expensive. 2. It's less complex. 3. Weaknesses are not introduced (welds in the axle beam, the adjusters themselves). 4. Once it's set to where you want it, no further adjustment is necessary. 5. I honestly believe that softening the sets of torsion leaves gives a better ride than using the adjusters to accomplish the task. As previously mentioned (but worth mentioning again), you should make sure all aspects of the front end are considered: 1. Use only passenger (P) rated tires. Light Truck (LT) tires are way too stiff for a recreational buggy. 2. Make sure you don't have too much air pressure in the tires. I run my tires at 15PSI all the way around, which is on the high side. Stiffer tires require less air pressure. Running on the street at 10-12PSI is not uncommon! 3. Use the softest front shocks you can find. Worn out hydraulic (non gas-pressurized) shocks are perfect for the front. I have Fox shocks on my buggy, and I had the front ones valved extremely soft with zero weight oil to get them right! Remove the shocks before you do anything else and see if the front end drops down at all. Many gas-charged shocks will push the front end up with an amazing amount of force. 4. Make sure everything is in good shape, properly adjusted, and lubricated. There are eight grease fittings on most king pin front ends. There are four in the axle beam assembly, and two in each steering knuckle. Earlier cars also had one on each tie rod end. Use the NLGI #2 Lithium based grease of your choice. The link pin and wheel bearing adjusting procedures are handled in the repair manuals. You DO have some repair manuals, right?
Sorry I can't be of more help, but I am aware of setups where all the original leaves are used, and others where further softening was done by switching some solid leaves with sets of splits. I went with the leaf swapping method alone because: 1. It's less expensive. 2. It's less complex. 3. Weaknesses are not introduced (welds in the axle beam, the adjusters themselves). 4. Once it's set to where you want it, no further adjustment is necessary. 5. I honestly believe that softening the sets of torsion leaves gives a better ride than using the adjusters to accomplish the task. As previously mentioned (but worth mentioning again), you should make sure all aspects of the front end are considered: 1. Use only passenger (P) rated tires. Light Truck (LT) tires are way too stiff for a recreational buggy. 2. Make sure you don't have too much air pressure in the tires. I run my tires at 15PSI all the way around, which is on the high side. Stiffer tires require less air pressure. Running on the street at 10-12PSI is not uncommon! 3. Use the softest front shocks you can find. Worn out hydraulic (non gas-pressurized) shocks are perfect for the front. I have Fox shocks on my buggy, and I had the front ones valved extremely soft with zero weight oil to get them right! Remove the shocks before you do anything else and see if the front end drops down at all. Many gas-charged shocks will push the front end up with an amazing amount of force. 4. Make sure everything is in good shape, properly adjusted, and lubricated. There are eight grease fittings on most king pin front ends. There are four in the axle beam assembly, and two in each steering knuckle. Earlier cars also had one on each tie rod end. Use the NLGI #2 Lithium based grease of your choice. The link pin and wheel bearing adjusting procedures are handled in the repair manuals. You DO have some repair manuals, right?Ok Lee, Thanks..I Do Have Repair Manuals. Think I Am Greased Ok, Comming Out Of Seals. Think I Will First 1. Make Sure Link Pin Adjuster Not Too Tight, 2. Remove Shocks, 3. Remove Snubbers And See What I Get. Next 1. Get Puma Adjustable Front Beam, 2. Remove 4 Partial Torsion Bars Upper And Lower On Both Tubes. Then I Will See. Do You Think I Will Need Caster Shims And Camber Adjusters? Do You Think I Am Headed In The Right Direction? Thanks For Your Help And Patience, Jim Ps Thanks To All. Unfortunatly I Am In Biloxi For The Winter And My Buggy Is In Illinois, So Won't See Till May. Staying Out Of The Snow. Just Trying To Get Ready For The Summer Assult.
Caster shims made quite a difference in my car. If your wanders at speed, they should help. Camber is adjusted by switching the link pin shims around. There's a procedure in the manual with a formula showing where the shims need to go after everything is measured. I'm not aware of anything else that needs to be done with regards to camber. Toe-in can be set by using the 'two stick' method, but an alignment rack is the better way to go.