Manx Hardtop installation

newmanx59 · Post by **newmanx59** » Thu May 22, 2008 9:36 pm

Can someone post the instruction sheet for mounting the hardtop to the buggy? I know it had springs and brackets, etc. I need to know exactly where they are supposed to go. Thanks,

Lee · Post by **Lee** » Thu May 22, 2008 11:53 pm

Jerry, I will dig through the buggy stuff tonight and scan it in if no one beats me to it. I would also like to add that I don't like the spring loaded method of mounting the hard top. The reason for the springs is to allow the windshield and rollbar to move independantly so the windshield doesn't get cracked. I have the square tubing running in the outside pan lips, and I never had a problem even with my hard top mounted solid. Ditto when I had a roof rack with 100 pounds of stuff on it supported by the windshield in the front and the rollbar in the back. To use the mounting system the top came with, you need to drill holes all the way through the rollbar for the bolts. That's another negative aspect. I used stainless steel U-Bolts to secure my hard top to the rollbar. There was no way it was going to come off, like Tibor's did when someone's head smacked into it during NoM/RR (ouch!). You might want to trim the 'ears' that would normally come into contact with the Manx body. Even with pads at the contact points, the gelcoat on my Manx got destroyed in that area, thanks to the hardtop. I'll quit muttering about the hardtop now!

mel hubbard · Post by **mel hubbard** » Fri May 23, 2008 12:54 am

Jerry, I mailed a set of drawings to Dave Jones a while back, I thought he was going to post em up. BUT> Three guys I know of lost their hardtops whilst driving in strong winds using the spring method though. From what I believe the early type windsheld frames were much stronger than the modern bugshields (shower rail type) ones,, not sure if that was the cause, but after the third one lifted off I got a little concerned. From what all three guys said they seemed to pop off the windshield frame & peel up,, once it lifts and catches the wind they just rip out any fixings or rip the fiberglass around the fixing brackets. My feelings of the bracket & spring method> Those springs keep constant tension on the widshield frame which IMO is not good. I did some tests years ago after those above problems & mocked up a Manx shell with a roll bar, windshield, headlamps & hardtop and bolted the thing onto a trailer & pulled it behind a sedan at speeds of up to 90 mph (any police looking, Im just exaggerating

) without any problems,,, even in very strong winds. The method used was real simple & fast to fix,,, since passing this simple method on to guys no one I know of has ever had a problem or lost a hard top since. The method I used back then was to put the hardtop over the windshield & pull it back tight,,,, then I put a small wooden block 2'' x 2'' (painted mat black) and held it tight to the widshield frame in the middle of the hardtop & drilled through the hardtop into the wood block & fixed a dome head bolt (painted black) with a wing nut & washer,,,, this way the hard top can never part company with the windshield frame & constant pressure by springs is no longer necessary. On the roll bar end I did the usual foam on roll bar bit, then drilled through the roll bar into the ears of the hard top and passed a dome head bolt (painted black to match the hardtop) through the outside of the hardtop ear with a spacer piece like hard black plastic hose pipe in between the fiberglass & roll bar to keep that part of the hardtop from pulling in & bowing,,,,,,, then put a wing nut on the inside,, with a spring washer on each. There ya have it > 3 wing nuts,, no springs or brackets,, cant get any easier. That ^ may sound a little primitive, but it was for testing purposes and it worked just fine,,, its now been perfected to alloy blocks (rather that wood) machined to fit the contour of the windshield frame on the underside of the hard top,, and two of them,,,,one either side rather than one fixing in the middle. I know you never asked for a novel Gerry,,, so maybe I had better stop now because this thing is turning into one

mel hubbard · Post by **mel hubbard** » Fri May 23, 2008 1:10 am

[QUOTE="Lee"] Even with pads at the contact points, the gelcoat on my Manx got destroyed in that area, thanks to the hardtop. [/QUOTE] Lee, I like the U bolt method too, but I found that drilling through the ears into the roll bar & putting that spacer piece in did keep the ear away from gelcoat on the fenders. Thinking about it a U bolt could be used on the side with a fixing to the ear which could save drilling there.

newmanx59 · Post by **newmanx59** » Fri May 23, 2008 2:40 am

This is the way I mounted my original hardtop. Keep in mind the wood mounts were only prototypes:

To initially install the top I hooked the front of the top in the groove on the windshield frame. Clamped the top in a way that it would push the top into the groove. I then, marked the top and drilled holes thru the top that correspond with the threaded holes in the aluminum mounts, then bolted the top to the mounts with 2 - 3/8 bolts per mount. Consequently, the top was only mounted thru the 4- clamps on the rollbar. In a split second, the front of the top came out of the windshield frame at 65mph on the interstate then the wind caught it and away it went, 30ft in the air, then landing in the middle of the roadway in front of a heard of cars traveling at 65mph.

I don't want that to happen again.

I still can't believe the windshield moves far enough to allow the roof to come out of the slot in the frame, it feels very solid. My thoughts are that the roof may be flexing as well. I still want to use my aluminum mounts, but I need to determine a way of mounting the top to the windshield frame without drilling holes in or marring the frame. I'm open to suggestions, ideas, etc.

newmanx59 · Post by **newmanx59** » Fri May 23, 2008 2:40 am

Here are the aluminum mounts I actually mounted the top with, these never made it past the testing stage:

ManxRob · Post by **ManxRob** » Fri May 23, 2008 5:31 am

I am currently working on my hardtop. I am planning to use a variation of the front clamps Mel described.. The full width front lip of my fiberglass top has 5/8 in of lip where it wraps the windshield, it just needs a positive stop/retainer to keep it engaged. I think a couple of small blocks of Teflon (like a kitchen cutting board), or ?Trex? type decking material will work. Each is hard and stable enough to machine with woodworking or metal tools, but soft enough that it won?t mar the aluminum windshield. Both materials are kind of ?slick? to the feel , which should help reduce squeaks. I like the idea of wing-nuts from the inside to hold the blocks. I would like to find an appearance grade large head carriage bolt that could be bonded in place. My top is molded using the roll bar as the rear support, and I was planning to just drill and bolt through the roll bar. After seeing this post I think I will attach the ?C? pillar wings instead, I like the idea of being able to shim them to fitand keep them from flapping. I am planning to use some fender welting as a rub strip to protect what's left of my 40 y.o. gelcoat. I?ll post pictures after the weekend? Thanks for the ideas!

mel hubbard · Post by **mel hubbard** » Fri May 23, 2008 10:31 am

If you don't want to drill through the hardtop at the windshield end in order to lock it against the windshield frame you could use ''Big Head Fasteners'' >> http://www.bighead.co.uk these fasteners can be glassed on to the underside of the hardtop and a locking block fixed into place,, for example > the ''Big Strip'' could be used along the front edge,, the ''loops'' (on their site) could be used to strap to the roll bar top by way of a velcro type belt,, the same could even be used for the ears if some kind of ''stand off'' block was fixed in place or even something like the 316-F2/b or S32 fasteners could be used there. These fasteners are very good and strong, I've used them in the past to mount number plate brackets & other stuff to the underside of buggy tubs. Adding further to my previous novel, one of the three guys that lost his hardtop actually lost it twice,,,,, after the first incident we beefed up the springs to keep the hardtop down & pulled back real tight,, in fact so tight that I was concerned about the force it was putting on the windshield frame. That lasted just a few weeks, but came off whilst driving on a motorway which could have easy killed a biker,, hence don't take this lightly & lock the hardtop to the windshield even if using the spring method, because thats where the problem lies,,, no matter how tough the rear fixings are, once a hard-top pops off the windshield frame the power of the wind will rip it off in the same way as the hood on a sedan coming up at speed.

ManxRob · Post by **ManxRob** » Fri May 23, 2008 3:03 pm

Thanks Mel, both for the warning about the importance of getting a positive lock on the windshield/top junction, and the bonded fastener idea to eliminate the need to drill through the top! I will try using bonded fasteners and post pictures of what I come up with. On a related subject: It seems to bonded fasteners could also be used to attach snaps for rear windows and curtains to the top where I have seen folks using 'drill through' snaps and acorn nuts. They could really clean up the final appearance of the installation. Thanks!

mel hubbard · Post by **mel hubbard** » Fri May 23, 2008 6:39 pm

[QUOTE="manxrob"] On a related subject: It seems to bonded fasteners could also be used to attach snaps for rear windows and curtains to the top where I have seen folks using 'drill through' snaps and acorn nuts. They could really clean up the final appearance of the installation. Thanks! [/QUOTE] Rob, I agree they could have many uses throughout a buggy build,, a neat way of bolting a fixed hood/bonnet on too. Maybe there is a sister or similar company in USA that produces these type of fasteners. I've never used their range of adhesives as I glass mine in at the laminating stage.. Here's a little more info on their company which may be of help >>>> ''Sunseeker Boats'' pioneered the use of BigHead fasteners in marine construction techniques many years back, so getting marine grade stainless fasteners is not a problem. They say if you can't see the exact shape & size of BigHead you need, they will make it for you as a 'special'. Just send a drawing or sketch and required quantity. They can also supply you with a free CD containing a complete set of 2D/3D CAD drawings of each fastener as well as a set in PDF format. If you need help or would like a free CD > sales hotline 01202 574601 email info@bighead.co.uk not sure if that offer is just limited to UK customers though.

newmanx59 · Post by **newmanx59** » Fri May 23, 2008 7:52 pm

I'm going to see if I can get my hands on some of these,

Then try to fabricate the front hold down utilizing them. They sure look like a product with thousands of uses, thanks Mel.

manxdavid · Post by **manxdavid** » Fri May 23, 2008 10:37 pm

Sorry Mel, my scanner's knackered!!!! I'll get it posted sometime...

newmanx59 · Post by **newmanx59** » Fri May 23, 2008 11:42 pm

Oh No! Not a Knackered scanner

!!! Tell me it's not so

.

mel hubbard · Post by **mel hubbard** » Sat May 24, 2008 1:13 am

[QUOTE="Manxdavid"]Sorry Mel, my scanner's knackered!!!! I'll get it posted sometime...[/QUOTE] Hey Dave, thinking about it, I reckon we've been lucky that no one has been beheaded by a flying spring loaded Manx Hardtop,,,,,, so maybe its a good job the scanners knackered

mackaymanx · Post by **mackaymanx** » Sat May 24, 2008 3:32 am

http://www.manxgallery.org/gallery/album374