This would more likely mean that 48 were made - not 148. I believe Richard Brown stated that the first serial # was 101 as well. I wonder what happened to all of those 600 extra ConVair (and Manxvair) chassis....However, your serial number is 148 so I believe its a ManxVair production number. I believe the first Manxvair which was produced in Dec 68 was serial# 101. I'm not sure there were a full 148 ManxVairs made (sometimes the factory skipped numbers), however I do totally believe what your P.O. told you about it being the last and so I believe there were no more than 148 made.
Production numbers?
Nelson - Great post!! One thing strikes me though...
Yep, I sure messed up the math on that. Probably 48 ManxVairs, not 148. That fits the data better though. If you check the serial numbers, there's right at 20% of all the B.F. Meyers buggies originally made on the register now. Its very consistent for all models. Winnie gave me a new list of all the 4 digit tag buggies a couple weeks ago, which I went through. The 4 digit numbers go from 1001 to 1679. That's 679. The list has 93 Manxes, 23 Tow'ds and 20 SRs. That's 136. 136 divided by 679 is .2003, or 20.03 %. (Spooky accurate!!) The manner in which individual owners submitted their tag #s for the registry from across the county(and globe) instead of someone somehow going out and gathering #s themself is what makes the registry a perfectly random sample and so, statistically valid. If you look at each block of 10 sequential numbers, (for instance 1150 to 1159) you'll see that most blocks have 1, 2 or 3 vehicles registered. Three blocks of ten have 5 registered. Three blocks of ten have 0 registered. The distribution of the sequence of numbers throughout the registry is remarkably even and consistent. The way the numbers consistently follow without gaps tells me there were no gaps in the sequence of 4 digit serial #s originally issued, and that the company under the receiver produced 680 vehicles(plus or minus 1 or 2) with 4 digit numbers. There is a single SR listed as #1849. However I'm literally 99% sure its #1649. Its inconcievable that a sequential group of 170 four digit vehicles would be missing from the registry. The listing has 93 Manxes, 23 Tow'ds and 20 SRs. That means during the final months, they produced 70% Manxes, 15% Tow'ds and 15% SRs. The last tag with the build date and color numbers for a Manx 2 was June 70 and August 70 for a Tow'd. Probably then, the 4 digit numbers started in July or August 70 and went on through 71 when they closed the company. Anyway getting back to ManxVairs, the registry shows 11. That means around 50 Manxvairs were probably made.
Looks like I can post now! 
Thanks for posting my reply Nelson. I'm wondering if they would have serialized the bodies as they got sold or as they were popped out of the mold. I'll have to ask Dave (The P.O.) who he spoke to when he went to California. His memory is like a computer. He seemed to remember every detail as if it were a few days ago. Jay
Thanks for posting my reply Nelson. I'm wondering if they would have serialized the bodies as they got sold or as they were popped out of the mold. I'll have to ask Dave (The P.O.) who he spoke to when he went to California. His memory is like a computer. He seemed to remember every detail as if it were a few days ago. JayNelson, Thanks for sharing all of the great history you come across!!!
This falls in line with the quote I found on the internet:Con-Ferr was planning to produce fiberglass Queen Manx bodies but only made one or two before a fire in their shop ended that.
Those two were probably built for Connie Stevens and Dick Smothers.[LEFT]Jon Harting reveals more details:[/LEFT] "I helped build the Queen Manx dune buggy that Steve drove in the Thomas Crown Affair. I worked as a mechanic at Con-Ferr Mfg. Co. from 1967 to 1968. It is gone now, but was at 300 N. Victory Boulevard in Burbank, CA. We manufactured 4-wheel drive accessories and sold new Toyota Land Cruisers with new Chevrolet engines. Somehow we were tasked by Pete Condos, the owner, to build this dune buggy. " "I bought a 1966 Corvair engine from a wrecking yard and brought it back to the shop and steam cleaned it. We attached it to a VW transaxle that was in a VW chassis. The body was ... custom [modified] in our shop. I remember Steve coming by to look at its progress on two occasions. Both times he drove a red Maserati roadster. He was real nice to all of us there. After the movie came out, we built similar dune buggies for Connie Stevens and Dick Smothers. Dick even came every day and watched us build his."
[quote="manx4dan;15255"] Those two were probably built for Connie Stevens and Dick Smothers.[/quote] Its possible but Pete Condos was also a regular Meyers Manx dealer. I think its more likely that they were regular Manxes. Tim Barton who interviewed Pete and wrote an article about the Thomas Crown Manx in Kit Car Builder magazine said that the "spare" TC movie Meyers Manx went to Texas and the one "Queen Manx" that Pete produced is in Washington state now.
Nelson, Yes, that does make more sense that they got regular Manx's. I may have to update my website again It's great that a few of you guys are contributing so much to getting the Thomas Crown buggy history out there. I'm doing what I can with what I've learned as well. Winnie and Bruce have reviewed my site as well and I've folded in their feedback in as well.
It's great that a few of you guys are contributing so much to getting the Thomas Crown buggy history out there. I'm doing what I can with what I've learned as well. Winnie and Bruce have reviewed my site as well and I've folded in their feedback in as well.Nelson, If you have a Facebook account, I invite you to join the Fanclub (see my signature). Pete Condos' grandaughter just signed in to it and is offering to post photos that she has. I mentioned your theory on the 2 buggies for Connie Stevens and Dick Smothers - let's see if she might know something...sorry for drifting off-topic...
This might be of interest. Just last week I was contacted by Pete through the DBA. He has a CC as well and is from CA. He emailed Winnie in April 2008 (Before he bought his CC buggy) and this is the response: Paul, Actually there were 2 different Corvair models called ManxVair's. One for using a Corvair rear and front end ("CC" on the serial number tag), and one for using a Corvair rear end and VW front end ("CV" on the serial number tag). Your tag indicates the following: *CC130H922S *CC = Corvair front & rear end 130 = number in production = 130th ManxVair produced (though we don't know exactly how many were produced) H = month of production = Aug 9 = year of production = 1969 22S = original gelcoat color code = Yuma Yellow Let me know if you buy it so that I can put it in our Registry. - Winnie Meyers It looks like I got the Official answer although picking everyone's brain here is more fun. Interesting that Winnie states that S/N 130 would mean the 130th produced. Jay
Bruce has said he only remembers a couple dozen or so ManxVair bodies being made. Here's the numbers of the ManxVairs on the registry, plus the one's you mention: CC 101 L8 CC 104 A9 CC 107 B9 CV 110 C9 CV 112 D0 (probably owner misread, actually D9) CC 130 H9 (not on printed registry yet) CV 133 J9 CV 134 K9 CC 144 D0 CV 145 F0 CC 148 F0 (yours, not on registry yet) Like I said in the post above, B.F. Meyers started the number sequences at 101 or 1001. I think its funny that Winnie messed up on the math like I did. The chances are extremely low that there are ManxVairs with numbers below 100 and not a single one has been registered, but over 20% of the ones between 101 and 148 have been registered. I took a statistics class once and they taught me how to calulate those kind of odds but I don't remember how to do it now, but its like a zillion to one.
Nelson, Thanks for performing the archeological data dig! This is quite fascinating to me. If I understanding the data correctly, there were a total of approximately 680 sequential, 4-digit tagged shells that left the company between July/August 1970 and the close of business in 1971. Using statistics the 680 Includes approximately (476) Manx2?s, (102) Tow?ds, and (102) SR?s. Does that sound correct? Are there any indications of more CC or CV Manx?s being produced with 4 digit codes? Very interesting! Thanks for the math work!
The title of the list Winnie gave me was: Meyers Manx Numbering System after Bruce Left the Company. The only oddballs on the list were two Resorters, # 1036, and #1050, which were both counted as Manxes. There weren't any ManxVairs What I find interesting is that there were no Utility Manxes on the list. I'm pretty sure all Utility Manxes have 4 digit numbers. I believe Winnie must have left them off because Bruce was involved with the production of at least three Utility Manxes. Utility Manx serial numbers I see with a quick glance at the registry are 1410, 1415, and 1536. Like I said, the 4 digit numbers appeared like they were isssued in sequence(not batches) because there were no discernable gaps. So anyway, there's a disconnect between what the numbers say about when the Utility Manxes were produced and whether Bruce was still with the company at least part of the time when 4 digit numbers were being issued.
cc & cv bodies
Jay while reading your posts on DBA you brought up the differences in the front of cc & cv type bodies, I have an authentic cv manx #133 and the front firewall area looks identical to the cc type (square over the tunnel) the napolean hat that i believe you are refering to (angeled upslope area from the pan to the tunnel) is outside and in front of the body firewall as to mount the vw style master brake cylinder.
Mike Dario
Mohave Valley, AZ
Manx Club #957
Manx Club President
Tow'd (Hers)
Manxvair (His)
Manxter Dual Sport #30 Baja Edition #2 (Ours)
Resorter #19-Fuscia(under construction)
Mohave Valley, AZ
Manx Club #957
Manx Club President
Tow'd (Hers)
Manxvair (His)
Manxter Dual Sport #30 Baja Edition #2 (Ours)
Resorter #19-Fuscia(under construction)
[quote="Jay_Hart;15275"]Wow, so there are only 9 registered on the site. How do I go about registering my manx on the site? Jay[/quote] Jay I just noticed your last question. To add your Meyers Manx to the registry, contact Winnie Meyers at Meyers Manx Inc. http://www.meyersmanx.com/contact.shtml
-
tim morgan
- Posts: 182
- Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:50 am