Ball joint front end

Siggymanx33 · Post by **Siggymanx33** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:37 pm

Hello all, It warmed up yesterday and today to about 30 degrees and I thought I would take advantge of the warm weather to get some work done.

On the Tow'ds ball joint front end I notice some pretty extreme angles. Since I am in the process of taking it down to the frame for paint, I really didn't worry about it much. I made some progress and I would just like to run it past you. I did a quick measurment and it appeared as if the shocks that were on it were an inch or two too long.(quick measuremnt against my Manx) I plan on replacing the shocks so no worry. When I removed the shocks I thought the suspension would relax what apears to be a maxed angle. It didn't. Does the tie rod adjustment, for lack of a better explanation, affect the amount angle that the arms are at? Meaning will the angles relax when I remove them and reset it up? Or is something else going on? The pictures don't really do the angle Justice but it certainly doesnt look right in person....

fubar · Post by **fubar** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 6:53 pm

Have you taken any weight out of it? Your normal ride height is where you should set you tow, camber,and caster. You might even sand bag it for estimated passenger weight. When you say the shocks were too long, was that collapsed legnth? Or were the shocks hitting the end of their travel spreading apart? If it was topping out the shocks to limit the down travel you wheels were not on the ground as much as possible and the clunking would have been annoying??

Siggymanx33 · Post by **Siggymanx33** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 8:37 pm

I have only driven the car into my driveway from the transporter then started taking it apart. I removed two lead or steel weights that were welded onto the front end totalling about 100 pds. The shocks were measured against another ball joint beam with a piece of string before I removed the weight. So the front end tie rods were set up with the weight.

manxdavid · Post by **manxdavid** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 8:50 pm

I thought all Tow'd chassis were built to take King & linkpin front beams? How well done has any conversion work been done?

Siggymanx33 · Post by **Siggymanx33** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:01 pm

I've seen several BJ tow'ds.

fubar · Post by **fubar** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:05 pm

I think reducing the spring rate and not using extra weight would make it more fun to drive. But I like doing wheelies. It sounds like it is topped out now, you could extend the shock by hand and compare it to the mounts hole centers. It should be on the plus side. oppsite for compressed torsions.

tgodber · Post by **tgodber** » Sun Feb 11, 2007 10:58 pm

Does the ball-joint beam have adjusters? Has the beam been cut and turned? Seems like the front end was raised and the shocks needed to be longer in order to fit. My front end was like that before I lowered it some. The weight was probably added to get the front end down some again. You need to get the balljoints at a better angle (lower). They do not like extreme angles. Tim

Siggymanx33 · Post by **Siggymanx33** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:26 am

Tim, All good points. There are no adjusters and the beam appears stock. How would I know if the frame was set-up for linkpin? Between the weights, the angle and the long shocks.....something doesn't add up........... The stance as purchased. The fenders were raised over the years for one reason or another.

tgodber · Post by **tgodber** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:00 am

The distance between beams is different for link-pin and ball joint front ends. On a VW pan you have to change the frame head before you can swap from one to the other.

Siggymanx33 · Post by **Siggymanx33** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:16 pm

Yeah, looking at how this towd fram is set up, I am positive that it should be BJ.

Siggymanx33 · Post by **Siggymanx33** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:47 pm

I am in the process of checking out my front beam, replacing the seals and putting a coat of paint on everything. This may be a stupid question but.....can I take the control arms off the beam without removing the ball joints from the spindles? Meaning can the control arms, the ball joints and the brake drums off the beam in one piece or do I have to seperate everything before removing the control arms from the beam?

Lee · Post by **Lee** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:53 pm

".....can I take the control arms off the beam without removing the ball joints from the spindles?" Yes. At least you can leave the lower ball joint in place. The eccentric camber adjusting bushing will come out of the spindle with the upper arm, so that pretty much takes care of that. You won't wreck the boot since there's no need to remove the bushing from the ball joint if you are not replacing them. I've never tried pulling the entire assembly out at once because I always start by pulling the upper arm out of the spindle. It's easier if you remove the brake drum because it reduces the amount of weight you have to deal with.

Siggymanx33 · Post by **Siggymanx33** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:07 pm

Lee, Thanks as always for your response. So you're saying I can take the top control arm off at the brake backing side (spindle), then I can get the top control arm off. Then I can deal with the bottom by taking everything else with the control arm? Thanks again,

Lee · Post by **Lee** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:45 pm

Dave, That sounds right. There's the obvious stuff like the torsion bar set screws, the tie rod ends, and the ball joint nuts (don't lose the washers!). Not to mention the brake line (although I think it is possible to pull the trailing arms with the brake lines still attached as long as you're careful). That's pretty much it. I always remove the nut from the upper ball joint and then pull the upper arm up. It takes a good deal of force to lift it up high enough to get the ball joint out of the spindle, and it seems even harder to put back in. You are fighting the force of one stack of torsion leaves. Having a helper to line things up while you lift makes it go A LOT easier. I think I cheated one time and used a floor jack and a block of wood. Be sure to mark the location of the eccentric camber adjusting bushing before you loosen anything. Get it back where it was, you don't need an alignment. Be sure to leave the center torsion bar set screws tight so the arms don't pull the leaves out. The spindle, brake backing plate, and drum (if still attached) will remain on the lower arm because we aren't going to touch the lower ball joint. One the upper arm is out of the spindle you should be able to slide it out. Sometimes it's a tight fit, so a hammer and pickle fork may be needed. If it's really in there it or the beam might be bent. The lower arm should come out the same way.

Siggymanx33 · Post by **Siggymanx33** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:06 am

Thanks a ton Lee, I appreciate it. I am going to attempt to lose some outer torsion leaves. On the tow'd, there is no weight at all on the front end and as I mentioned above, the control arms are completely maxed out. If I stand on the beam, it will flex.......but not much. I have a spare beam that I could go get adjusters put in if the leaves don't work out well. Getting adjusters welded in around here isn't the easiest thing to do. So I'm gonna crack it open and see if I can't improve on what what I have. It needs to be partially pulled apart for paint anyway.